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Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 198 of 246 2493
LCGCmax6 Aznaran -— direct
1 BY MR. EVERDELL:
2 Q. And just to be clear, when refer to border crossing, what
3 does that mean
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Aznaran -— direct
Filed 08/10/22 Page 196
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
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LCGVMAX5
at which point
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761 ‘Filed 08/10/22 Pa
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 194 of 246 2489
LCGVMA
fe
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
a
fe
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 193 of 246
I went to the
f
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Document 761 _ ‘Filed 08/10/22 Page 192 of 246 2487
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 187 of 246 2482
LCGVMAX5 Loftus - redirect
THE COURT: Okay.
25
(Counsel conferred)
MS. POMERANTZ: Nothing further
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Document 761
Loftus - cross
something, the be
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
10
The core memory of
of memory, right?
A. Th
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
QO. And none of
right?
A. None of the
Docume
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 183 of 246 2478
mething contradicts the true events so
t as susceptible to suggestion,
—-— that was a
And we were not able to mislead peo
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 182 of 246 2477
LCGVMA
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 181 of 246 2476
LCGVMAX5
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Q.
walked through
Document 761
Okay. And then
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
yield sign,
A.
Q.
£
As
Q.
membered the sim
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
10
MS.
BY MS. POMERANTZ:
(In open court)
Do
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 173 of 246
LCGVMAX5 Loftus — cr
fe
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
a
fe
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 172 of 246 2467
LCGVMA
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 171 of 246 2466
LCGVMAX5
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 166 of 246
LCGVMAX5 Loftu
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Q. Right. And over time,
right?
A. Correct.
Q
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
trials, right?
A. In 50 years, yes.
Q. The
A.
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
A.
That is a quote,
Document 761
Loftus
bu
w
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Avs Yes.
Q. That's a pho
to of you
A. Very old pho
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761
LCGVMAX5
defense, yes.
Loftus - cross
Q.
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Q. About 1,000
A. Well, I don't
times?
know
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 159 of 246 2454
Ftus.
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
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25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
As
Q.
same regardless o
A.
No, I don't.
Doc
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 154 of 246 2449
LCGCma
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX5
Q.
context 01
BY MS. STERNHE
Farlier today I
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
20
21
22
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24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGCmax4 Loftus
pleasant lunch. We're going to
THE COURT: Thank you,
Document 761
examination of professor Loftu
be
NO
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 135 of 246 2430
LCGCmax4 Loftus - direct
the problem is when you have post-event suggestion or
intervention, people get very confid
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 134 of 246
2429
LCGCmax4 Loftus — direct
1 Q. Outside of the laboratory, is there any way of proving that
2 someone has an actual memory?
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761 ~—_—~ Filed 08/10/22
LCGCmax4 Loftus — dire
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 132 of 246 2427
LCGCmax4 Loftus - direct
Post-event somebody could supply post-ev
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761
LCGCmax4 Loftus
MS. POMERANTZ: Objection,
T
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGCmax4
Document 761
Lo
ftus
Filed 08/10/22
—- direct
Page
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGCmax4
you've seen a horrible traf
par
ticularly str
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGCmax4
A. Correct.
Q. You just mentioned the suggesti
ay
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 126 of 246 2421
LCGCmax4 Loftus - direct
it's faded and weakened, it becomes more vulnerable to
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
fe
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
Ww
a
OY
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
Page 125 of 246 2420
LCGCmax4 Loftus — direct
Q. So in connection with the
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761
Filed 08/10/22
LCGCmax4 Loftus - direct
A. Yes.
Q
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGCmax4
Document 761
Loftus
Filed 08/10/22
—- direct
Page 123 of 246
2418
1 sometimes they're witnesses, and they're not the victim
2 themselves, but --
3 Q. Now, after
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
Document 761
Loftus
Filed 08/10/22
—- direct
Page 120 of 246
LCGCmax4
BY MS. STERNHEIM:
Q. And have you testifi
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX3
testified more o
A.
The prosecution is
Lo
Ften
D
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX3
animals,
Document 761 ‘Filed 08/10/22 Page 116 of 246 2411
Loftus - dire
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 Filed 08/10/22 Page 117 of 246 2412
LCGVMAX3 Loftus — direct
1 those babies, something that you see in these claims of satanic
2 rituals, for example.
3 Q. Dr. Loft
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761
LCGVMAX3
Loftus - direc
Filed 08/10/22
Page 112
be
NO
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
Ke)
a
oO
he
be
No
(ee)
=
Hs
Oo
_
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke}
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 761 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 110 of 246 2405
LCGVMAX
be
N
Ww
ws
Oo
OY
~]
oO
WO
a
oO
=
be
N
Ww
=
Hs
Oo
a
OY
a
~]
a
oO
a
Ke)
20
21
22
23
24
25
Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE
LCGVMAX3
commencement and receive it,
yet happened.
QO. Let'